Module 5: Act II, scenes v, vi, vii
How do you feel about the Prince of Morocco? Do you have sympathy for him? Why or why not? Which do you think is worse: a suitor who chooses what they think everyone "desires" or what they think they "deserve"?
Follow the same instructions as the last time...you're all doing a great job with your posts, and I'll pop in and add some comments as soon as I finish up with your Google Drawings. I'm reading your comments as you post, though, so keep up the good work!
Follow the same instructions as the last time...you're all doing a great job with your posts, and I'll pop in and add some comments as soon as I finish up with your Google Drawings. I'm reading your comments as you post, though, so keep up the good work!
At first, I didn't like Prince Morocco because he was bragging a lot, but when he was picking the coffins, he showed a side of himself that showed him being self conscious which made him want to choose the gold casket because he believed Portia was in there because she's the one that "many men desire"," and by getting what people want, he thought it would give him more recognition (line 5). I think a suitor who chooses what everyone "desires" is worse than a suitor choosing what they think they "deserve" because by picking what everyone "desires," they would assume it's Portia that everyone desires, which what Morocco did, and treat her like some sort of trophy, and wouldn't treat her as a actual human being. They would pick that for the recognition of being able to beat out everyone who desired her, and show her off. By picking what they think they deserve, it's also selfish, but they would probably treat her a bit better than a trophy. They would treat her well because she's the one that they have been working up to for their whole lives, and this is what they truly deserved. But all in all, anyone who picks that is selfish and greedy.
ReplyDelete-James
I agree with how people who want her because she is desired by everyone else would treaty her like a trophy since they would want to show her off as theirs. However, I think people who want her because they think they deserve her might also treat her badly because they believe that she should belong to them and that he is entitled the himself and won't know to cherish her.
Delete-Zoe Lee
I agree with not liking the Prince of Morocco because of his bragging and that by picking Portia because others desire her, he is definitely not pursuing her for the right reasons. It's interesting how you say that they would treat her like a trophy and also because the gold casket represents materialism and wealth kinda like a big gold trophy. Do you think that the suitor who believes he deserves Portia wouldn't still treat her like a prize that he believes he earned?
Delete-Bradley
I think that you have a good point about the dangers of this process. It emphasizes Portia's little choice that she has and how she could be stuck with someone who doesn't treat her well. You pointed out that even with the father's tests, there are still flaws even if his test weeds out people who are selfish and greedy.
Delete-Meredith
DeleteI agree that the princes bragging makes people not like him and that he is just going after Portia for the status. However, I feel he is doing all of this to overcompensate since he has been discriminated a lot.
Delete-fernando
I definitely agree with how you are saying they would treat Portia like a trophy, if they choose desire. But, do you think if they chose "deserve" that shows that they are cocky, and will treat Portia with disrespect?
Delete-Caroline
I don't like the Prince of Morocco because he comes off as cocky and won't stop bragging about himself. Although, I do have sympathy for him because I believe his bragging comes from him being so insecure. The first thing he says to Portia is: "Mislike me not for my complexion" revealing that he is often discriminated against for his race and fears Portia's judgement (Act 2. scene 1. ll. 1). He chose the gold box because its inscription says, "Who chooseth me shall gain what many men desire" (ll. 5-6). This proves that he is drawn to what everyone else desires because he is insecure and wants to prove that he can get what everyone wants. I feel bad that he feels lesser because of he race and is insecure. At the same time, I think he truly feels that he deserves Portia and if he wins her the material wealth can make his insecurities vanish, which aren't the best motives. I think a suitor who chooses what everyone else desires is worse that choosing what they think they deserve. Picking what others desire shows that your motives are to elevate your status, self-value, and material wealth. It's also bad because the suitor would be choosing Portia because of the competition among everyone wanting her. If the suitor feels that he deserves her he would at least work harder to feel that he has earned her. I think of a the desire choice almost like a fashion trend that someone doesn't really love, but they buy it because everyone else has it and they want to fit in. Eventually the trend will go out of style and they will get rid of it. So basically if you choose what others desire the love will not last and it will have been for the wrong reasons.
ReplyDelete-Bradley Parham
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DeleteI agree with you about choosing what everyone else desires because i do think that it would be worse if a suitor chose that, because it means that they wouldn't actually love her. I also think that the suitor would most definitely be self centered and feel like he's the best because he "beat" the rest of them
DeleteI agree that the prince didn't have the best motives and that he was selfish in choosing the gold casket to cover up his own insecurities. And I also strongly agree that the love will not last if the prince wants Portia for the wrong reasons.
Delete-Zoe
DeleteI really love the connection to fashion trends that you chose to describe wanting something that all desire. I think it really helped elevate your point and made a great argument.
Delete-Pippa
I like your connection to insecurities, especially because it is a valid issue in today's society
Delete-Torin
I also agree with how choosing what everyone else desires is worse since the person is just thinking about themselves and their status, which means their marriage will fail since their love is very fake.
Delete-fernando
I totally agree with you about insecurities and how many factors have ruined his confidence, further your idea on desire vs. deserve makes a ton of sense
Delete.
I didn’t really dislike the Prince of Morocco or anything in the beginning, if anything I felt bad for him when he first said, “mislike me not for my complexion,” which I thought clearly demonstrates his insecurities about his color. These insecurities were further highlighted when we see his thought process on page 77. The prince had an arrogant personality and bragged a lot but I think it was just to hide his insecurities and his feeling of lack of power and respect by showing off. I think he is just someone who seeks others approval, which is also why he chose the gold chest. He wishes to possess something, or someone, everybody desires to feel respected and envied, which he feels like could raise himself. I think the word “deserve” could mean two things, it could mean that the suitor feels like he is entitled, but can also mean self worth and that he believes he is good enough for her. However, I still think a suitor who only wants what others desire is worse because that can mean that the suitor doesn’t really love or care for Portia but only cares for what others think. So what would happen when nobody desires her anymore?
ReplyDelete-Zoe Lee
Being different from others seems to be a common theme to many different people in this book, from being born different or the want to be different. For example, Morocco was born different, and he's probably often discriminated for it. or Jessica, who wants to be different from her father to distance herself from him.
DeleteI totally agree about feeling bad for him because of his racial insecurities and that he shows off because of lack of power and respect, which is why he wants to win Portia. I like how you mention that the word "deserve" could mean two different things but either way choosing what others desire could potentially leave Portia alone.
Delete-Bradley
Like Bradley said, I really like your point about the two different meanings of desire. I did not consider that at first, but it is very true. I also agree with the statement about what will happen when Portia is no longer desirable. I wonder if Prince Morocco would still care for her then. Maybe since she is high status, he would still be happy because he feels good about himself, but I'm not sure.
Delete-Pippa
I very much understand how one could sympathize with the prince for his insecurities but why does it not translate whatsoever to you disliking him? I understand you get he is in pain so you cut him slack but does it not frustrate you?
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ReplyDeleteI do have some sympathy for Prince Morocco due to his race and the judgement he receives for it. It is implied based on his statement, “mislike me not for my complexion,” that he is worried that Portia will judge him based on his appearance (43). Despite his arrogance, bragging, and boasting throughout the scenes he is in, it is clear that he is secretly insecure. By wanting the gold chest, he is drawn to appearance and what is desired. The chest of gold is one of value and self-worth, but it is solely appearance, stating, “who chooseth me shall gain what many men desire” (75). The fact that he is choosing the chest based on what is on the outside proves that he thinks he deserves it and wants what all desire. However, his choice reveals that by choosing something desirable, he believes that people will respect him. This shows that in the end, he is insecure and upset because of the way he is treated and the power he wishes to attain. There is a lot of irony to his choice because he is choosing the chest on appearance as other people judge him based on his appearance. I believe that wanting something that all desire is worse than thinking you deserve something. While the feeling of deserving something is entitlement and arrogance at its finest, it can also mean that one worked hard or actually cares for the person, so they deserve them. Wanting something that all desire means that you don’t actually love the person but believe that they are of value or an object to win. It makes a person feel heroic and powerful when they attain it. In the end, this is what the Prince of Morocco wanted to feel better about himself.
ReplyDelete-Pippa Sims
I agree! I think it is very insightful that you talked about him being drawn to the appearance of the chest, and your argument for desire makes me rethink mine!
Delete-Meredith
I feel a little bit torn for the Prince of Morocco. I do have sympathy for him and can see his disappointment after not getting something that he longed for. When Morocco compares the gold and silver caskets, he says that "all the world desires her" (77). As Mr. Aceves discussed, this shows his insecurity and want for the world to respect him, and because of this, I have sympathy for him and what he has gone through as the world has judged him. I feel like he does have a sense of entitlement and hubris, which isn't very good "husband" material for Portia. Because of this, I feel like it was right that Morocco did not pick the lead casket and become Portia's wife. I do not think that the gold and silver caskets are completely bad because I think that they can be interpreted differently, but I think that someone who picks what they think they deserve is worse. If someone were to pick something that they think everyone desires, it shows how good this person thinks that this thing (in this case Portia) is. It is not uncommon for people to think that their husband or wife would be "wanted" by everyone else if they met them. Someone thinking that they deserve something shows entitlement and that they do things thinking of the reward rather than for the benefit of others.
ReplyDelete-Meredith
"torn" haha. strong. Nah but I liked how you used the judgement placed on Morocco as a point of vulnerability for the character
Delete-torin
apparently I use the word torn a lot hahah
Delete-Meredith
After hearing Morocco's situation in depth, I felt quite bad for him. He boasts, blinded by his ego, yet he has so little. Though he may flourish in his homeland, in Europe he has very little compared to many. He masks his insecurities by showing off to Porsia, who unfortunately, could care less. Believing in what one deserves could come from two different ends. Morocco, for a moment, believes "in love I do deserve," but once again, his ego takes over. If one believes he deserves such a thing like the fair Porsia solely because he believes it, then they do. However, if one has an ego such like Morocco's, then one might believe he deserves more than he actually does. But on the other end of the spectrum, if one doesn't believe in themselves at all, then they might not make the right choice, choosing to convince themselves they are not worthy of Porsia. Then there's the notion of "what all men desire." I think Morocco chose this because he saw Porsia as a 'key' to ending his underlying misery as a minority. If he were to posses what "all men desire," then he would finally be where he wants to be. But if a man were to already have what he believes all men desire, so be it. He might make the right choice. In my opinion, no right choice is right. The right choice can be the best one for you. In Morocco's case, he made the choice solely based on his personal desire. I'm anxious to see how Bassanio (and others) reason and choose their caskets.
ReplyDelete-Torin
I said something similar to this, but I totally agree. The prince reasons through his choice wisely, but then feels he probably isn't what she deserves but he knows she desires love so maybe it could've been him.
DeleteI feel bad and have a lot of sympathy for the prince of Morocco since he brags about himself to try and hide his insecurities about his complexion. He wants to marry Portia more for the status he will get than the money he will inherit. He wants Portia because "all the world desires her. from the four corners of the earth they come"(77). He thinks that his lack of power due to the discrimination he gets will be compensated by having the most valuable girl. He wants power so much that it blinded him from choosing the right chest. While choosing a chest he says, " I do in birth deserve her"(77). The prince has good intentions for trying to marry Portia. There is irony since Portia said that his complexion wouldn't' decide what happens, but in the end his insecurities about his complexion lead him to choosing the wrong one. Choosing what you thing you deserve has better intentions than choosing what everyone wants.
ReplyDeleteI 100% agree with you saying he wants power and the money he will inherit. But do you think that if he choose the right casket, he would treat portia with disrespect, because all he is looking for is power?
DeleteI at the beginning, dislike the Prince of Morocco but as it continues, I felt for all of his pain. Already talking to a girl, sometimes guys will get nervous and say stupid stuff, but we can tell with his tone he already lacks confidence and with the added note of his complexity used as something girl's have disliked him because of, he seems to have a pretty solid reason to try to artificially make up for the confidence he has lost. I think a suitor thinking they "deserve" everyone else to like them is far worse in ways. then "desire" them. desire would mean everyone truly likes you, and especially if the suitor hasn't had a ton of friends, or a billion other reasons, this wouldn't be a terrible thought for them. but for a suitor to say " these people deserve me" would imply the ultimite amount of cockieness, and not like the Prince of Morocco's which is artificial to make up for the confidence he lost, it is a character trate of these guys that won't be changed and is absolutely pathetic.
ReplyDeleteAs I read through this module, I had slight sympathy for Morocco, but I also viewed him as quite selfish. I have slight sympathy for him because I feel bad that he is so insecure about himself. With the word choice of "mislike me for my complexion,"(43) it shows how he is scared and very insecure. I think that this fear might have taken over his mind, and impacted his decision of choosing the gold casket. As he chose what he desired, I saw that he only cares about the power he will gain in the marriage, and not so much the actual relationship he could form with Portia. I believe that if he really cared about Portia, and who she was as a person then he would risk everything he had for that relationship. I do think that choosing what you deserve, is better than choosing what you desire. Choosing the gold casket as what "all the world desires"(77) shows he reader the high desire of the suitor going to Portia for power. I also thing choosing deserve is better because when choosing deserve, you not only look at who you are, but what Portia should get, and deserve as well. I think choosing deserve shows more selflessness that choosing desire.
ReplyDeleteI can't say I have an opinion either away about the prince, he is a typical prince in how he carries himself and how he thinks he is viewed. He clearly wishes to speak to the desires of others and tries his best to be "the best." In this sense no I don't like him because he is like every other prince you've either read about (fictionally) or grown up watching on a TV. at the same time he of course has the pity effect because of his race. He makes it clear that he has been passed on by multiple judgements because of his race and in a sense he has a weakness, something that makes him seem a little more like an average person. So it is hard to decide whether you should judge him from what you hear because of his situation, or not because of the understanding that outside of this narrative he is probably a good person and has hardships as well. Honestly, I think it's worse to be someone who chooses what everyone desires rather than deserves because you are lying about how you truly feel. If you express what you think someone deserves, it could be harsh but in reality it comes from a place of biased feelings which would will you to feel a certain way about how someone should be treated and what they deserve. Unfortunately for the prince, not only does he choose wrong, he also proves that he would have not been the right choice for Portia because he would not have been an honest, trustworthy husband.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteIn the beginning of Portia's encounter with the Prince of Morocco I didn't care for Morocco much because of his snobby, arrogant attitude. I thought he would be the typical antagonist prince you hear about in fairy tales, but as the scene progresses he begins to develop a good conscience which shows him that under his confident armor he actually has a lot of human insecurities. He shows these when choosing between the silver casket and the gold one. He was very indecisive and I think he over-analyzed the riddles. I believe he thought gaining whatever "many men desire" (77). would entail his marriage with Portia and furthermore his happiness. Although it is clear this happiness likely included more money than he could ever imagine and tons of power, I think it's also clear that he did have strong feelings for Portia despite what she thought of him. For these reasons, I do have sympathy for him. In my opinion a suitor who chooses what everyone desires is better than a suitor who chooses what they think they deserve because in order for a man to think he deserves Portia and everything she has would have to feel very entitled and far too confident to care for Portia. A man who thinks they deserve Portia would likely only marry her for her money, whereas a man who wants what every man wants would probably care more for Portia because they are at least thinking past the riches and further into the marriage.
ReplyDelete